Legislature(2011 - 2012)HOUSE FINANCE 519

03/20/2012 09:00 AM House FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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+ HB 196 BULK FUEL LOANS/POWER PROJECT FUND TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ HB 261 COMMERCIAL FISHING ENTRY PERMIT LOANS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 9 IN-STATE GASLINE DEVELOPMENT CORP TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
HOUSE BILL NO. 261                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating to loans for the purchase of                                                                              
     commercial fishing entry permits; and providing for an                                                                     
     effective date."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:21:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Thomas   MOVED   to  ADOPT   proposed   committee                                                                    
substitute  for HB  261, Work  Draft 27-LS0968\B,  (Bullard,                                                                    
3/19/12) as a working document.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OBJECTED for purpose of discussion.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOE MICHEL,  STAFF, CO-CHAIR  STOLTZE, reported  the changes                                                                    
to the work draft. He  noted that three sections (Section 1,                                                                    
Section 4,  and Section 5,  Paragraph B), were  removed from                                                                    
the  previous version  [CSHB 261(FSH)],  of the  legislation                                                                    
and  nothing was  added. The  omitted  sections removed  the                                                                    
provision that reduced the interest  on the loan two percent                                                                    
below the  prime rate to  avoid competition  with commercial                                                                    
banks  and  maintain the  focus  of  the bill.  The  primary                                                                    
purpose  remained increasing  the  loan  limit. The  sponsor                                                                    
concurred with the changes.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze WITHDREW the  objection. HB 261, Work Draft                                                                    
27-LS0968\B  (Bullard, 3/19/12)  was  adopted  as a  working                                                                    
document.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:25:45 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Edgmon  explained that HB 261  dealt with the                                                                    
Commercial Fishing Revolving Loan  Fund Act. The program was                                                                    
implemented  in  the  1980's  and  was  designed  to  assist                                                                    
commercial fishers. Over the  years, the legislature enacted                                                                    
modifications  to the  program.  The  statute contained  six                                                                    
sections  and HB  261 pertained  to Section  B, of  the act.                                                                    
Section  B  increased  the  loan   limit  from  $100,000  to                                                                    
$200,000. The  provision allowed  economically disadvantaged                                                                    
fishermen  to  purchase  limited  entry  permits  that  were                                                                    
rising  in  value.  He  expounded  that  the  original  bill                                                                    
attempted to do  more. The earlier version  offered the loan                                                                    
at two  percent below  the prime  rate, which  was currently                                                                    
5.25  percent.  After  discussions with  the  Department  of                                                                    
Commerce,  Community   and  Economic   Development  (DCCED),                                                                    
Division  of  Economic  Development,  it  was  decided  that                                                                    
interest  rates  were likely  to  rise  in the  future.  The                                                                    
interest rate provision was  considered too "ambitious." The                                                                    
bill was scaled back to  contain only one provision; raising                                                                    
the loan limit. He  outlined the eligibility requirements. A                                                                    
commercial  fisher  must  be  turned  down  by  conventional                                                                    
lending  institutions  or  CFAB  (Commercial  Fisheries  and                                                                    
Agriculture  Bank), proven  economically disadvantaged,  and                                                                    
participated in commercial fishing for two years.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze  wondered  how  CFAB  was  performing.  He                                                                    
repeatedly heard  of fishers and  farmers being  turned down                                                                    
by CFAB  for loans.  Representative Edgmon answered  that he                                                                    
was uncertain.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Edgmon  voiced that the projected  demand for                                                                    
the loan program  was relatively modest; 25 to  50 loans. He                                                                    
expected  that  the  applicants  would  be  younger  fishers                                                                    
without other means to purchase  a limited entry permit. The                                                                    
opportunity for  young fishers to  obtain a  permit provided                                                                    
multiple benefits.  The economic  multiplier effect  for the                                                                    
small coastal  communities where  many of the  young fishers                                                                    
resided was potent.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze remarked  that  his  district contained  a                                                                    
number of commercial fishers.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Edgmon spoke  to the new zero  fiscal note by                                                                    
DCCED.  He pointed  to  an  error in  the  narrative on  the                                                                    
second  page. The  second sentence  referenced the  interest                                                                    
reduction  provision  that  was  not included  in  the  work                                                                    
draft.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:34:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Guttenberg  questioned whether  raising  the                                                                    
loan limit for  young people new to a  fishery was burdening                                                                    
them  with  excessive  debt. Representative  Edgmon  replied                                                                    
that entering  the fishing business was  more expensive than                                                                    
ever.  Limited entry  permits and  associated fishing  costs                                                                    
had skyrocketed.  The higher loan availability  afforded the                                                                    
opportunity for new young fishers to make a living.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Wilson   asked  how  many  loans   ended  in                                                                    
default.  Representative Edgmon  answered that  historically                                                                    
the default rate was very  low. The loan portfolio performed                                                                    
"admirably."   The   principle   in  the   loan   fund   was                                                                    
approximately  $80 million.  The  program actually  returned                                                                    
funds to the Department of Fish and Game (DFG).                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze asked  whether the loan program  was a true                                                                    
revolving  fund. Representative  Edgmon  responded that  the                                                                    
program was a true revolving fund.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello asked  what  the  costs of  permits                                                                    
were   over   the  time   period   of   the  loan   program.                                                                    
Representative Edgmon  elaborated that permit  prices varied                                                                    
widely over  time. Speaking  exclusively of  salmon permits,                                                                    
prices  correlated  to the  ex-vessel  price  of salmon.  He                                                                    
related that  in Bristol Bay  in the early 2000's  the price                                                                    
of limited  entry permits plummeted  to $18,000  when salmon                                                                    
prices tumbled.  Bristol Bay gillnet permits  were now worth                                                                    
$150,000. Permit prices raise and lower dramatically.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Costello asked  what  the average  age of  a                                                                    
commercial  fisher  in  Alaska  was.  Representative  Edgmon                                                                    
relayed that  the age  of the  average limited  entry permit                                                                    
holder was  creeping upwards.  The average  was 50  years of                                                                    
age.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:39:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Gara asked  whether a  residency requirement                                                                    
applied  to loan  applicants. Representative  Edgmon replied                                                                    
that the  applicant must clearly  establish residency  for a                                                                    
period of  two years preceding  the date of  the application                                                                    
and participated in  commercial fishing for two  of the last                                                                    
five years.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara asked if a  lower interest rate could be                                                                    
offered to  young applicants that  would not cost  the state                                                                    
to  lose money.  Representative  Edgmon  explained that  the                                                                    
current statute  authorized an interest  rate of  two points                                                                    
above  prime. There  was another  provision in  statute that                                                                    
allowed a  one percent deduction  if the loan  payments were                                                                    
paid on time for the first year.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze added that the  loan was a securitized loan                                                                    
and not a signature loan.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman  asked  if different  interest  rates                                                                    
were specified  in statute. Representative  Edgmon responded                                                                    
that the loan rate was specifically tied to the prime rate.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman   asked  whether  a  board   had  any                                                                    
authority to  determine the interest  rate in  the revolving                                                                    
loan   fund   or   if  the   rate   was   set   statutorily.                                                                    
Representative  Edgmon  restated  that  the  intent  of  the                                                                    
original bill was to allow  the division to deduct 2 percent                                                                    
off of  the prime  interest rate, which  was removed  in the                                                                    
current version. The  rules were defined in  statute and set                                                                    
at two percent above prime.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Neuman  inquired  if  different  loan  rates                                                                    
applied   for  different   fisheries   under  the   program.                                                                    
Representative Edgmon  exemplified the passage of  HB 20 two                                                                    
years  ago.  The  legislation authorized  energy  efficiency                                                                    
loans to  commercial fishers  at 2  percent below  the prime                                                                    
interest rate for energy  efficient engines, generator sets,                                                                    
etc.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:45:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WANETTA  AYERS,  DIVISION  DIRECTOR,  DIVISION  OF  ECONOMIC                                                                    
DEVELOPMENT, DEPARTMENT OF  COMMERCE, COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC                                                                    
DEVELOPMENT,  indicated that  different  interest rates  for                                                                    
different  purposes existed  in statute  for the  Commercial                                                                    
Fishing  Revolving  Loan  Fund. The  senior  loan  committee                                                                    
within  the  division  cannot  consider  different  interest                                                                    
rates  other than  the interest  rates outlined  in statute.                                                                    
Representative  Neuman  believed  that a  board  was  better                                                                    
suited  to  set  the  most  applicable  interest  rate  that                                                                    
reflected the current conditions of the fishery.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze asked  if the  loans could  be refinanced.                                                                    
Ms. Ayers replied  that the interest was fixed  for the term                                                                    
of the loan. A re-financing option was available.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Thomas  referenced  the student  loan  forgiveness                                                                    
program.  He wondered  why one  profession  was chosen  over                                                                    
another  for state  loan forgiveness,  especially since  the                                                                    
commercial  fishing  fleet  was   "graying."  He  asked  why                                                                    
$200,000  was chosen  as the  loan limit  when some  permits                                                                    
cost $400,000.  Representative Edgmon  felt that  the number                                                                    
addressed the  majority of salmon fisheries  permit costs in                                                                    
the  state.  The amount  was  set  to accommodate  the  most                                                                    
number of fishers.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze   reiterated  that  the  loan   limit  was                                                                    
doubling from $100,000 to $200,000.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:49:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE TWOMLEY, CHAIRMEN,  COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN LIMITED ENTRY                                                                    
COMMISSION, addressed  Representative  Guttenberg's  concern                                                                    
that  the  increased  loan  limit  might  burden  new  young                                                                    
fishers  with   too  much  debt.   He  explained   that  the                                                                    
commission monitored the price  of permits from 1980 through                                                                    
2011.  The  price  of  permits  reflected  the  amount  that                                                                    
fishers  were willing  to invest  in the  fishery and  their                                                                    
expected  returns. He  felt that  the best  measure was  the                                                                    
individual fishermen's  willingness to  put their  own money                                                                    
at risk based on expectations.  He reported that Bristol Bay                                                                    
was the  largest salmon  fishery. Out of  the 32  years that                                                                    
the  commission  tracked  permit  prices,  the  average  and                                                                    
median price for  a Bristol Bay gillnet  permit was $100,000                                                                    
for  16 years.  Currently, the  price exceeded  $100,000. He                                                                    
felt that the  $200,000 loan limit was a  good estimate. The                                                                    
loan program  provided rural fisher's access  to credit that                                                                    
otherwise  was   unobtainable.  He  was  pleased   that  the                                                                    
legislation was  introduced to increase  the loan  limit for                                                                    
Section  B loans  since  the price  of  Bristol Bay  permits                                                                    
exceeded the limit.  He believed that the  legislation was a                                                                    
"concrete  response"  to  facilitating the  entry  of  young                                                                    
Alaskans into  commercial fishing that was  addressed in HCR
18 (Commercial Fisheries Programs.)                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze questioned  what happened  when a  limited                                                                    
entry permit  dropped in value  and the  borrower defaulted.                                                                    
Mr.  Twomley   responded  that  the   loan  program   had  a                                                                    
"tremendous"  success rate.  In  case of  a foreclosure  the                                                                    
division  was  required  to   sell  the  permit.  Procedural                                                                    
protections existed  for the  fishermen under  statute. Very                                                                    
few  loans  went  into foreclosure.  The  program  was  very                                                                    
successful.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze questioned whether  the fisher had enhanced                                                                    
protection  under  statute  than   other  debtors  had.  Mr.                                                                    
Twomley stated that was correct.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas  recalled bidding  online for  a repossessed                                                                    
Bristol Bay gillnet permit that was foreclosed on.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vice-chair  Fairclough referred  to a  letter of  opposition                                                                    
from CFAB dated  January 25, 2012 (copy on  file). She asked                                                                    
whether  CFAB was  still in  opposition or  if its  concerns                                                                    
were  addressed.  Representative  Edgmon  replied  that  the                                                                    
letter  addressed an  earlier version  of the  bill opposing                                                                    
the  interest rate  reduction. He  had not  heard from  CFAB                                                                    
regarding the new version.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:56:22 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  related that  when the state  granted a                                                                    
limited  entry license  the recipient  was able  to sell  it                                                                    
when they  stopped fishing. He  felt that created  an unfair                                                                    
opportunity to  make money  on a  public resource.  He asked                                                                    
whether the  state changed the rules.  Mr. Twomley responded                                                                    
that free  transferability still  existed. He felt  that the                                                                    
transferability  was useful  to  help  Alaskans get  limited                                                                    
entry permits.  If the limited  entry permits  were reissued                                                                    
to the state the process  would be accessible outside of the                                                                    
state.  Transferability gave  Alaskans a  fair chance.  Over                                                                    
the  years transfers  to Alaskan  residents  grew over  non-                                                                    
Alaskans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gara  inquired how  the current  system keeps                                                                    
more  permits in  Alaskan communities.  Mr. Twomley  replied                                                                    
that  transferability created  the  opportunity for  Alaskan                                                                    
ownership.  The  provisions  in  Article  8  of  the  Alaska                                                                    
Constitution  prohibited   the  state  from   directing  the                                                                    
distribution of  permits. He explained  that transferability                                                                    
"created  the  opportunity"  to direct  permits  to  Alaskan                                                                    
communities. He  highlighted that  the Bristol  Bay Economic                                                                    
Development   Corporation   operated   a   regional   permit                                                                    
brokerage  and loan  guarantee program.  The loan  guarantee                                                                    
program influenced where the permits went.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze spoke  to the  constitutional aspect.  The                                                                    
Constitution  contained non-exclusive  rights to  fisheries.                                                                    
A   constitutional  amendment   adopted   in  1972   allowed                                                                    
exclusive rights for conservation  and economic distress. He                                                                    
thought  that although  not  a  mandate, the  constitutional                                                                    
amendment allowed amending the  limited entry permit statute                                                                    
to   include  exclusive   fishery  rights.   He  asked   for                                                                    
clarification.  Mr. Twomley  reported  that  when the  state                                                                    
tried to  direct benefits the  efforts were  always reversed                                                                    
in  the  Alaska Supreme  Court  under  the equal  protection                                                                    
clause.  He exemplified  reversals of  rural preference  for                                                                    
subsistence in  times of scarcity or  local hire provisions.                                                                    
He  concluded that  it was  highly unlikely  that the  state                                                                    
Supreme  Court  would concur  with  a  program that  granted                                                                    
resource   entitlements   to   particular   communities   or                                                                    
individuals.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stoltze   countered  that  the   exclusive  rights                                                                    
amendment was  not a constitutional  right but  an allowance                                                                    
within   the  statutory   framework.   He  interpreted   the                                                                    
constitutional amendment  as, allowing for a  deviation from                                                                    
the non-exclusive  right but was not  a guaranteed exclusive                                                                    
right. Mr.  Twomley agreed that  an amendment to  modify the                                                                    
limited entry  statute could be  recommended and  added that                                                                    
the permit was not a right but a privilege.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Thomas concurred that a  limited entry permit was a                                                                    
privilege from  the state to  harvest the resource.  He felt                                                                    
that it  did not give  commercial fishers an  inherent right                                                                    
to  block other  industries from  developing resources.  The                                                                    
state granted  the fishers the  privilege to work  by making                                                                    
limited  entry permits  available  to purchase.  He did  not                                                                    
want commercial fishers to  limit other Alaskans opportunity                                                                    
to jobs  in other  industries through protest  claiming they                                                                    
have exclusive rights.  He added that Alaskan  fishers pay 7                                                                    
percent of  gross income  in raw  fish tax,  enhancement tax                                                                    
and a  marketing fee. Alaskan fishers  generated the revenue                                                                    
to  operate the  Commercial Fisheries  Entry Commission  via                                                                    
limited entry permit purchases and  vessel licenses fees and                                                                    
even generated surplus funding.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze OPENED public testimony.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:04:25 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JERRY MCCUNE,  UNITED FISHERMEN OF  ALASKA spoke  in support                                                                    
of  the  legislation.  He  felt the  bill  provided  a  good                                                                    
opportunity  to  support  new   younger  entrants  into  the                                                                    
fisheries. He identified the three  ways to obtain a limited                                                                    
entry permit;  CFAB, Division of Economic  Development, or a                                                                    
private  lending  institution.  A  private  lender  required                                                                    
collateral.  He  related  that groups  like  Sea  Grant  and                                                                    
Bristol Bay Economic  Development Corporation educated young                                                                    
fishers  on how  to repay  the  loans and  helped them  with                                                                    
financial planning.  New entrants into the  fisheries needed                                                                    
to  implement  a business  plan.  Commercial  fishing was  a                                                                    
business  and  a  professional  approach  was  required  for                                                                    
success. He  furthered that permit  prices were  dictated by                                                                    
permit availability, previous  season's conditions, and fish                                                                    
prices. Permit prices dropped after  a bad season as quickly                                                                    
as they rose with good seasons.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Joule   asked  what  ages   encompassed  the                                                                    
"young" demographic. Representative  Edgmon thought that the                                                                    
demographic was fisher's in their 20's.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. McCune related  from his experience in  the Copper River                                                                    
fishery  that approximately  50 "young"  fisher's, 20  to 30                                                                    
years of age  participated in the fishery.  Many permits get                                                                    
passed  on  to family  members.  The  legislation aided  new                                                                    
entrants into the fishery who had to purchase the permit.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:09:39 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stoltze CLOSED public testimony.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB  261  was  HEARD  and   HELD  in  committee  for  further                                                                    
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB196 Statutes Repealed by Section 6.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 196
HB196 Sponsor Statement.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 196
HB196 Sectional Analysis.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 196
HB 261 Support--BBNA Resolution 2012-05.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 Sponsor Statement Final.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 Sectional Summary.PDF HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 Regarding CFAB Letter.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 CFRLF Summary with Section B Details.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 Regarding CFAB Letter.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 CFRLF Financial Information 1-12-2012.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 CFAB Letter.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 CDFU Support Letter.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 BBEDC Support Letter.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 Average Costs for Salmon Fishery Entry Permits in 2011.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
CSHB 261 (FSH) Explanation of Changes in CS.PDF HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB9 Amendment-1- Gara K version.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB 261 CS Work Draft B version.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 CSHB 261(FIN) Sponsor Statement.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB 261 Explanation of Changes in CSHB 261 (FIN).PDF HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 261
HB9 Fiscal Note Analysis Template.xls HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 AGDC Funding Profile JMD.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 HFIN Response to Questions.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB 9 Amendment 2 -K- Thomas.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Odsather Testimony 3.docx HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Odsather Testimony 2.docx HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Odsather Testimony 1.docx HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9
HB9 Amendment 3-K-Thomas and Backup.pdf HFIN 3/20/2012 9:00:00 AM
HB 9